I only skimmed the article, but the commenter’s are forgetting that the classic burlesque stars incorporated belly-dancing in their burlesque acts. In my opinion, belly-dancing and burlesque are much less cousins, performance art of enticement and seduction.

As far as what Fleur du Mal’s question regarding American burlesque, it does focus on the strip tease. Back in the 30’s and 40’s when the burlesque comics made a transition into radio and TV, the burlesque theaters had to fill the stage, and they did so with “strippers”. From this we get burlesque strip teaser stars like Gypsy Rose Lee, Lili St. Cyr, etc. Is American burlesque more sexualized than in the UK? The answer may be yes. I watched the HBO documentary by Liz Goldwyn called “Pretty Things” which she interviewed the big classic burlesque stars. One of them admitted, “…sometimes we wore pasties, and sometimes we didn’t. Sometimes we wore g-strings and sometimes we didn’t.” I think there are many different aesthetic to burlesque. I have seen it span the gamut. I have seen very glamorous strip-tease like Dita von Teese and Immodesty Blaize, and I have also seen bits that are much “edgier” and more provocative. However, I have always known burlesque to include a striptease.

I am unfamiliar with British burlesque. Does it focus more on the comedy than the striptease like American burlesque?

I think it tends to, yes. I'm by no means an expert, but at most burlesque nights I've been to the majority of acts have been character based pieces, with a storyline and narrative, and usually comedy ones at that. Of course, there are plenty of performers who do the classic stripteases, fan dances, balloon pops, etc., which are often glamorous and elegant rather than funny, but I know that I personally view these type of acts as more American style, whilst I see the character-based comedy pieces as more British style. I myself am not averse to the American style and do a couple of fan dances, but when I do a striptease I like to have a storyline, and preferably some comedy in there too, because that feels more 'burlesque' to me than a straight striptease ...

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I performed last saturday evening in Rugby's Benn Hall at The Bellydance and burlesque night and it was a fantastic evening. i felt it gave the event a larger audience and a broader mix. everybody enjoyed themselves and gave alot of people their first taste of Burlesque. I would definitely recommend anyone to go along to an event featuring both arts and just see what its all about

Hi, I just had a chat with a fellow burlesque dancer and discovered that in fact many of the American burlesque dancers at the recent London Burlesque Festival do in fact just do a general strip and follow less of a skit/plot/story line with their routines.

Isn't that interesting? I think most British Burlesque defintiely has a storyline to it to keep the audience enthralled AND to create the satire and parody...

There you go!

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I was actually going to begin a thread on this same subject but did a search and found
that Sapphira had beat me to it.

I will mention again, the same line that Sapphira quoted from the article, although it was amusing it also bothered me:

"As it is traditionally understood, I do not find Burlesque, (meaning nudity—no matter how hard one pretends it does not) amusing or creative in the slightest when it comes to including bellydance, an art that has suffered too long with such unfortunate associations. I find it completely irresponsible and detrimental" quote miles copeland

I think that while it is important to show bellydance in a positive light, it is also important to respect other art forms and performers. Placing every single burlesque performer or any dancer who incorporates burlesque in a show in the same bag as strippers and associating them with nothing but sleaze is unfair and comments like the one quoted above, are certainly not positive for those performers.

He is disregarding the origins of burlesque and bagging all traditional parody performers
with modern tease.
In The UK there are plenty of burlesque performers who stick to the origins of the word and perform parody without any strip or nudity at all.
And there are plenty that do both and some are also bellydancers!
I personally would not like to see a bellydancer performing a bellydance that included
nudity, that is definitely a no go for me!
If burlesque is included in a bellydance act, it should be the traditonal parody which does not include a strip. I have seen many acts that do this and it works wonderfully.
There is no harm in including a bit of fun into bellydance as long as you don't lose the dance itself.
Bellydance is about the dance itself whether it is traditional or cabaret, tribal or fusion. It is about performing dance and those who study bellydance know the importance of it's origins. American Burlesque on the other hand derived from the shows such as 'Little Egypt' and their take on bellydance so it is linked when you look at it from a burlesque perspective.

I agree that bellydance itself has no need to be associated with stripping but I think
one should not be so quick to judge burlesque and decide that all burlesque is about nudity when history quite clearly holds a much bigger picture.

I read a really good thread about the origins of burlesque here actually:
http://www.ministryofburlesque.com/b...rlesque-2.html

I think that perhaps Kitty Klaw should contact him and give him a history lesson.
Kitty is very knowledgeable and is good at setting people straight when it comes to
peoples opinions about burlesque.

There is a thread about this on tribe.net also
It is quite long but but you may find interesting as
it is mostly bellydancers
giving their opinion on the subject and
Miles Copeland has joined in the thread also.

If anyone here is on Tribe or wouldn't mind joining for the sake of a rant....
please join the tribe, throw some rotten tomatoes!

Burlesque/Bellydance rant by Miles on GS - The Biz of Belly Dance - tribe.net

Hope to see some of your views on Tribe

and Hope to see you all at Shangri-la lounge in September!!!

www.myspace.com/shangrilalounge


Luv Beatrice xx

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The entertainment form where someone will take their costume off according to a comic narrative or satirical concept, is actually a hybrid of striptease and burlesque. The two forms are not interchangable and should not be confused.

Traditionally in Britain, burlesque did not actually involve stripping or striptease. It was a form of musical comedy which focussed on burlesquing (sending up). For many modern burlesque acts, this is still the case.

The method of stripping or striptease in the style of burlesque, is an invention of the USA - and relatively recent one (not quite 100 years).

Striptease remains an artform in it's own right.

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Kittie Klaw - The Ministry Of Burlesque
"Together We CanCan".

Find out more at.
www.kittieklaw.com
www.ministryofburlesque.com

Kittie's post just reminded me... I watched this week's America's Got Talent on ITV's Catch-Up service the other day.

Did anyone else see the Hot Pink Feathers?

One of the women said something which sounded a bit weird. I've had a look on YouTube for the footage, but it doesn't appear to have been uploaded... and I'm not about to try and scan through the episode on catch-up because ITV catch-up is full of errors at the best of times...

She begun by outlining that the term 'burlesque' originates from roots meaning 'to parody', and then went on to say something along the lines of 'in modern times, burlesque is generally understood as a type of striptease...' and didn't elaborate. She clearly felt the need to include the 'in modern times' disclaimer and the historical introduction, but didn't really say whether she thought this modern association with striptease was good/bad/indifferent.

Perhaps she'd been nervous in front of the cameras, or perhaps she'd been edited and her statements moved around... but it just sat a bit funny with me... as though her description of burlesque is precisely the cause of the modern (mis-)understandings of burlesque she referred to - or the understanding that ' burlesque is classy stripping' (as so many people often try to tell me before they see my acts).

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- International Neo-Burlesque Artiste -
http://www.vonbourbon.com

Yes, that's a classic quote! Because being classy makes the stripping socially acceptable or something >_< I've heard it described as that so many times it makes me cringe just a little bit ...

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To me, it sounds as if the Bellydance V Burlesque argument/debate is becoming as much an argument over semantics as it is one of 'appropriate' behaviour.

It is important to keep on track with the issue in hand.

It is interesting to note that some opposing sides often seem to be defining 'burlesque' according to their argument. Thus in essence, they are not arguing over the same thing and (as usual) the word 'burlesque' is being misused over and over. This is really unhelpful and unfair to many burlesque acts who are being misrepresented.

Perhaps it would be helpful to decide on exactly what the issue is - and name it appropriately. When saying 'Bellydance V Burlesque' - it seems that people could be referring to (or inferring from) many different issues:

• Bellydance V Burlesque (perhaps bellydancers do not like to be 'sent up'? perhaps they feel their craft should not be made light of?)
• Bellydance V Striptease (perhaps bellydancers do not like to be associated with a tradition of the adult/sex industry?)
• Bellydance V Burlesque-Striptease (perhaps bellydancers do not like to be made fun of in a sexually provocative way?)

It seems most likely that it is the issue of sexual/adult based association, rather than feeling peevish over being made fun of by satirists/comedians. If so, then this is an issue of Bellydance V Striptease. This is a much more clearly defined issue and actually, has nothing to do with burlesque.

It is important to consider that performers of any tradition will always feel concern over a new hybrid form which involves their own craft - i.e. bellydance-striptease or bellydance-burlesque or burlesque-striptease and so on.

Traditionalist bellydancers will naturally be concerned about the loss of 'identity' when the defining characteristics of the two constituent parts of the new hybrid form, ultimately become blurred, over time.

This is essentially what has happened to 'burlesque' - and explains why there is a lot of confusion over it's meaning.

Burlesque had nothing to do with striptease until the early 20th century - when a hybrid form was created for the US adult market. Almost immediately, the lines were blurred - especially in America.

Fortunately for us in Britain, there are still plenty of traditional burlesquers to uphold the traditional form too, however, they are unfortunately having to battle to preserve the identity of 'burlesque' itself.

My suggestion for a possible solution:

Perhaps if the bellydancing pioneers of the new hybrid form in question, can coin an entirely new phrase of their own? If so, perhaps people will be more accepting to it as an entirely new thing - one to be judged on it's own merits?

__________________
Kittie Klaw - The Ministry Of Burlesque
"Together We CanCan".

Find out more at.
www.kittieklaw.com
www.ministryofburlesque.com

I have been belly dancing since I was a kid, and I have just recently started burlesque. I have received a lot of criticism for combining the two styles. Where I live, Adelaide, in South Australia, it is very conservative and quiet. The burlesque scene has only just really started up, and while belly dancing has been in Adelaide for a really long time, there is still a lot of negativity. I brought over a dancer from Melbourne to perform Belly dance Burlesque, and some students from another school in Adelaide left part way through the show because they were so offended (she didn't even show any skin!!!)
I must admit, I feel a little uneasy about dancers who combine belly dance and burlesque but don't really qualify what the two styles are or how they differ. I completely understand reservations about hybridity. Belly dancing is sensual yes, but (at least I believe) that it is more about interpreting the music, dancing from the soul and sharing it with an audience. I don't think it is all about sex or sensuality. I love combining the two dance styles, and there are great performers that have. But I think people need to be really aware that it is not in any way traditional and should be viewed in a completely different light.
I think it is the same situation with tribal and fusion belly dance. When these styles started first emerging, there was a lot of criticism, and now fusion has taken over the world!