@Purbeck Photo Art. Agreed - the performers always want 'their' photos/vids and will quite often impatiently hound me to edit them nicely etc. Then they promptly chop off my little promo tagline and put them on Facebook. Often without even a thankyou. Meanwhile muggins here is expected to feel happy with free entry to the show, often not even a pint when you get there!

I'm seriously contemplating not bothering to take my camera kit to shows now - by the time I've spent at least as long as the show editing pics and the same again on videos, for no real benefit to me, it's cheaper to pay the entry fee...

Sorry, i'm a little late to this thread, but have found it an interesting read.

In my professional opinion, as a promoter, I can't comprehend any regular event not being prepared to pay its performers. Even hobbiest promoters need to approach putting on a show from a business perspective - and without happy, skilled performers, there is no show!

The way i look at it, you can't put on a good show for free, so you charge entry. The entry fee you charge needs to reflect your costs. If you're putting on a bunch of new performers, you charge low and make sure you can at least pay their expenses. If you want a bill full of professional performers, you charge higher, pay expenses and fees, and make sure the show is of a high enough quality to justify the price! Its a no brainer.

Of course there are some exceptions to the rule. I've happily donated performances to charity events that were close to my heart and I've performed for free for friends events when they were starting out.

But my major concern is the 'it'll be good for my career mentality.' I've done it a few times myself, taken a job that was unpaid for the experience, the contacts, the prestige, whatever...
but i'm really now of the opinion that if a promoter cannot afford to pay their performers even basic fees, that they cannot afford to put on a show, and so should not. Maybe controversial, but this is my livelihood, and if i can afford to pay my performers, so can others.

Sinfully, Severine x

I have to say that I have seen a lot of this. Most of my images have the photographer linked on them. Surely it would be common curtosy. A while a go I asked if I could do some backstage shots of a show for my new evening course I am doing....I done them and before I knew it two performers had taken them, editted them without my conset and reused them. No tag no thanks no nothing. Now I have only just started out on this venture and it raked me off no end!!! So I can only imagine how you feel after having this happen time n time again.

On a plus side I always acknowledge you! xxx

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Inspired Chaos
http://www.KhandieKhisses.com

Yes, you are a delight to photograph Khandie. Especially when you suddenly jump of the stage and run across the room and jump on a chair!! Liked that I did.

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http://www.jonathonwyliephotography.co.uk/

[QUOTE=jamesthorpe;112339
I'm seriously contemplating not bothering to take my camera kit to shows now - by the time I've spent at least as long as the show editing pics and the same again on videos, for no real benefit to me, it's cheaper to pay the entry fee...[/QUOTE]

Hi James. Nah mate, don't stop taking the pics. I shot myself in the foot in Bournemouth by throwing my hands up in sheer frustration last year at two venues and the way non of them could make their minds up what they wanted and, one of them asked how many tickets I wanted and would I be paying by card....................Now I have to go back to the beginning and start all over again. All I wanted was a venue where I would be resident tog, they would make some money and so would I. Oh well.

Sorry for hijacking the thread Kittens n Kats.

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http://www.jonathonwyliephotography.co.uk/

Always a pleasure to jump about!

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Inspired Chaos
http://www.KhandieKhisses.com

I've really enjoyed reading this thread and its very relevant to me at the minute.
I'm currently setting up and promoting a new night and looking for a mix of amateur and established performers.
It would never cross my mind to ask anyone to perform for me and not offer them a 'wage'.
I have asked performers how much they usually get paid for their acts and will make sure that's the amount they will get at the end of the night. I trust the performers not to add on an extra £50 to make the money.
When I started performing myself (though don't get me wrong, I am very amateur) I would have willingly done it for free just to be able to add another venue to my CV. But then at the same time, I'm thinking, these outfits cost me over £100 each, I spend about £50 on tights and stockings a week, I'm trying to save up for a pair of fans but I've nowhere near enough to spend idly on more props when I know I'm not going to make that money back. Yet.
Then on top of that to pay for my own travel and accommodation.
I agree with the many people saying that charity doos are an exception, and of course I think you shouldn't seek profit for charity events. Everyone has to do their bit.
But when you know that the promoter is just going to pocket the money that should be going to you. I mean, at the end of the day, if the promoter were to stand up on the stage waving around a feather boa about and trotting around on the stage for 6 minutes, I'd say they wouldn't make much money on themselves.
They're getting money because they're getting artists who practice, and work hard on building routines and spend their own money on perfecting their art. That's what people are paying £12 a ticket for. And the performers should be getting some of that money.

As a newbie this thread has been fantastic for me. I must admit, I've was shocked to find how many people expect that taking your kit off is something to be done for free. I do think it's fair to be free for charity, but otherwise it does feel rather exploitative - in my 'day job' I book artists to take events and would feel embarrassed if I couldn't pay them (although sometimes we have to negotiate and if we can't afford them, then we don't book them - simple!), and would work on the basis that the ticket fees will help cover their costs.

I'm not of the impression that I ought to be commanding loads of money as a beginner, and don't ever expect to get rich out of burlesque, but I do think people should be paid to work. It is only fair, ethical and business-like.

Lily x

There are many of us that do work like that, however, there are always a few chancers in the world...

I suppose it depends on what is considered work and what is considered a hobby (amateur) pursuit.

All entertainers start at the bottom rung of gaining experience, stage time etc and work their way up - why? Because they have to. It's not the public's responsibility to pay for the training or past time of those who wish to enter show business.

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Kittie
http://www.kittie.me.uk/
http://www.ministryofburlesque.com/