Thread: Politically Incorrect Music

I have to agree with the "it's in the delivery" sentiment. If you try an treat lyrics like this in an overly-sensitive way then I think you run the risk of treating them seriously and in so giving them credence. However if you go absolutely over the top caricature them then I think you are less likely to offend anyone. That being said there are always some people who seem to go through life trying to find things to be offended by so whatever you do some people will deem you to be wrong!

Originally Posted by evildrneil

I have to agree with the "it's in the delivery" sentiment. If you try an treat lyrics like this in an overly-sensitive way then I think you run the risk of treating them seriously and in so giving them credence. However if you go absolutely over the top caricature them then I think you are less likely to offend anyone. That being said there are always some people who seem to go through life trying to find things to be offended by so whatever you do some people will deem you to be wrong!

Charicaturing the words would be fine but in my opinion just having them there incidently could come across as just 'so what'.
Remember those words are not just words anymore. For decades they have been used as weapons to hurt people and they still cut. We don't really have the right to expect people not to be offended in this case.
I know most people would like to just forget and move on but they past is still very much hanging over us and it is very complex.

Incidently thinking about the whole blacking up issue, I remembered that Alan Carr did it on several occasions including when he dressed up as obama. No'one really seems to be offended by that, why? I myself didn't find it offensive- just funny.
Is it entirely in his handling?

I'm not totally familiar with British copyright law but is there a provision for parody and/or fair use? People edit songs all the time for performance reasons (and not just because there are questionable elements) so I don't see what the issue is with editing the song.

Not knowing the performance you're after or where it's being performed I'm not sure we have a complete picture of the context. There are still big issues with referencing racist statements like "coloured men" and "coon" and of reprising past attitudes as though you were endorsing them (there was a recent debate in the steampunk world about Victorian orientalism which was similar). Nowadays there is this trend towards ironic hipster "racism" - "look! I'll make fun of racists by being racist! it's totally IRONIC!" - but when things are still unequal, when just being a brown performer means you get introduced as The Exotic XYZ no matter what you're performing , when you even struggle to name non-White male burlesque performers*, the irony is lost. It's just perpetuating.

Why the song? Is it absolutely necessary? Can the mood be achieved through another piece, by editing it, by an instrumental? Asides from the aforementioned race issues, I feel that having doubts about the elements in your performance can show up in the actual piece...the audience can tell if you're awkward about it. At least if you're more confident about the song you're more confident overall.

* Polytoxic in Brisbane consists mainly of Polynesian/Pacific Islander/ATSI performers, and some of them have teamed up with some other star boylesque performers for BRIEFS, an all-male circus/cabaret/burlesque/madness revue. They do incorporate some aspects of their culture but it's basically making fun of masculinity or the lack thereof. And it's hilarious as.

Originally Posted by Miss B Poppin

In the case of othello I think it probably often is PCness going a bit to far but it depends.

Patrick Stewart once played Othello ... with an otherwise all-black cast. I'd have liked to have seen that

I can´t see that changing the lyrics around would be a problem. In copyright or not I doubt whoever it is that is in charge of that part of the law would be at your performance....Also, if it´s under copyright aren´t you supposed to pay to use it anyway-if it´s performed to more that 5 people (or something like that).

my first thought is that there is no way of doing a 'racially indifferent' performance of this music. it has racist language in it. whether or not that language was offensive when it was written is irrelevant. it's offensive now.

these are my other thoughts:

Joe Black 's act is making fun of minstrelsy, not of black people; that's clear. but even that isn't necessarily a get-out-of-jail-free card. a lot of black performers don't see that white performers have any right to make representations of black people - or even to make parodies of representations of black people. especially when the original representation was not light-hearted, but a truly vicious racist caricature. for some audiences that's still not fair game. Joe knows that when he takes it onto the stage and he is willing to take the risk.

your situation is different in that you're not trying to parody racism; just to choose a song. but if you're not trying to make any point about racism, using a racist lyric seems a little self-defeating.

i know an elderly couple who once went to a cocktail party with one of them in blackface. they were surprised that my friends and i thought it was dodgy. 'but darling', they said, 'there weren't any black people at the party!'

i once saw a white performer do an erotic contortions act to 'Strange Fruit'. yep, a song about a lynching. she honestly didn't understand why a member of the audience (who was white, from the US) thought this was appalling. 'but it's just a pretty piece of music', she said.

a lot of people in the UK might find this song you're concerned about simply quaint and laughable; certainly a lot of white people might. but it sounds to me that this piece of music is making a rod for your own back and you should find another. why not use the piece from the original opera? it's sublime. or maybe keep searching. you will find something just as good, and save yourself a lot of stress.

and if you do decide to use it, and someone does take offence, PLEASE don't just say that they 'just didn't get it'. because to my mind that's a bit of a cop-out.

p.s. Tangerine Jones is a performer i met in New York when i did Weimar New York who might interest you. she has very strong views on issues of representation in burlesque . she is a black performer who does a blackface act.

That Limits fella knows that he's talking about.

aw shucks, i'm just trying to be helpful.

i looked for Tangerine's act on her website but it's not there. she seems to be doing very different stuff now. it's a shame. i wanted to fly her over to London to do the minstrel act. it's very confrontational.

[QUOTE=DustyLimits;115830]
i once saw a white performer do an erotic contortions act to 'Strange Fruit'. yep, a song about a lynching. she honestly didn't understand why a member of the audience (who was white, from the US) thought this was appalling. 'but it's just a pretty piece of music', she said.
QUOTE]

My goodness lol !!!! That is unreal! What was she thinking!!? Did she not hear the words properly? How is that possible?!!

A freind of mine once said to me that they can handle the skinheads and the rabid old ladies, it's the subtle racism of people who don't even see what their doing that he finds the hardest. This is a perfect example though a quite extreme one, as there are many more subtle ones.

Of course I don't think this is the case with you Viva, you obviously do care and are aware, else you wouldn't raise these questions. The lyrics in your song are a whole different ball game to the aformentioned use of strange fruit but as has said before the words themselves are just not something that can be ignored. xxx

Apologies for not having responded before to all your posts - it's just that such thoughtful and insightful replies deserved a considered response, and I've been being slowly strangled by large quantities of banana-yellow lycra. Don't ask.....


The whole point of my wishing it were possible to use this particular song was that for me it epitomises the true spirit of burlesque : the subversion/mockery of a so-called ' high' art form. In this respect the song itself is true burlesque , in that it parodies possibly the most exclusive of all cultural expressions : Grand Opera. This it does by re-interpreting a great piece of classical music within a ragtime idiom; the words themselves are integral to this subversion, offensive as they are today. And for his audience, and I think for ours, ' ragtime' culture meant black culture.

But sadly, Berlins' words are integral to the subversion. For me, using the same piece of music ( in its reworking of the original Donizetti) does not work without the lyrics : the Berlin version is all about taking something high-brow and making it 'street' , accessible, contemporary. ( I mean 1912 contemporary). It's not just about making it 'swing' musically, it's about the story of how and why, about explaining to the listener/audience the difference between the 'posh' original and the 'street' subversion. Using the music without the words makes no sense in a burlesque context, as it removes the humour and the subversion - it is just the equivalent of using something like Jacques Loussier playing Bach, rather than Glen Gould playing Bach. If you are a classical music lover, you may just get the joke. But you'ld be back to appealing only to a 'high-brow audience' again. The whole point is in the title : 'Opera Burlesque '.

I think the points raised about 'Intention' were very interesting. It was never my intention to offend or shock by wishing to use a song which contains words which are undoubtedly unacceptable today. But reading the lyrics again, I don't think Berlin is 'intending' offense. He is using terms which would have been completely inoffensive in 1912. I am not saying that this should make them alright to use nowadays. It is just that our mores have changed, and the specific words which he used have become much more politically charged - although interestingly they are words which seem almost archaic to our modern vocabulary : 'darkie', for example. We feel intrinsically now that it has negative overtones, but it is not a word heard with the same frequency, nor has anywhere near the same impact, as the 'N'-word. Had the 'N'-bomb featured, I wouldn't even have bothered posting this thread.

I would not for the world wish to be seen as sympathising with racist views. Which is why I knew from the start that this song would be a no-go. But I really appreciate all your opinions on the subject, which have helped me to clarify for myself why this song, with its' great burlesque heritage ( and fabulous tune), is not an option. I knew it made me feel very queasy indeed, but I needed to work through exactly why it couldn't work on stage today.

Happily it will be out of copyright in 2012. In the meantime I'm still fasciated by the idea of subverting 'Grand Opera'. So I guess it's back to Wagner. Which of course brings a whole new set of baggage. Watch this space, and thank you for some fascinating posts.

Viva x