Thread: Burlesque artists getting paid now and again

I've noticed recently that everyone seems to want to book burlesque artists but no one seems to want to pay to have them perform.
Looking in performer jobs section for the past month ago, its seems awash with people wanting to have people work for them for no pay citing "no budget".

Well as a promoter myself for a long time and a performer I really have to ask - if there is no budget - what exactly are you doing wrong? If you are charging people entrance fee and have promoted the event properly you should make at least some money surely. At least enough so that you can cover performers expenses. Charity gigs aside (I personally don't believe that people should profit from charity gigs) what is your excuse?

Is it just laziness on the side of the promoters. We can't be bothered to advertise our nights properly and we know we won't get anyone in so we're not going to even bother?
Or greed?

It's fine to say you're "showcasing artists" but unless you're a big club that has big name talent on the bill already, then you're not really doing the performers any favours at all because they are doing it for no money to no audience!

I just think expecting people to perform something that takes a lot of balls to do anyway for nothing at all is a bit rubbish.

Am I wrong? Discuss

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this frustrates me with illustration too, I get plenty of people wanting me to work for free because it will be "a great opportunity"... yeah it will be, for them. To get some free promotional material. Jobs like that rarely do me any good, and I just waste the hours working for bugger all.

People don't seem to understand that us arty buggers do it for the money, as well as for the love of it. Otherwise you may as well just stay at home doodling/dancing for yourself.

xx x

Spot on. As a performer AT THE VERY LEAST you shouldn't be out of pocket when you go and do a gig. No, you shouldn't have to pay for your petrol/train fare/booze/etc.

Too often performers are expected to cough up, to do their job. For many people performing is just a hobby, but when it's your job it really sticks in the throat to be asked to work for nothing.

you've got no performers, you've got no show. Therefore your performers should be the biggest expense, and you should pay them fairly for what tey do.

the way i look at it is, if you're charging on the door - you can afford something.

personally i feel its laziness on promoters part, but also greed in some cases... sadly

last year i did a show for travel expenses, because i was going to be in the area the next day anyway. and i wasn't doing anything else.
that way i didn't have to worry about taking travel out of the next days money.

fine. the promoter who only paid travel, explained that's all they could afford. because it doesn't make them money due to the venue being small.
however, when later they were counting out hundreds and hundreds in front of me, having just paid £30ish to each person for travel... i was a tad disgusted that i had been lied too.
never again.


however - i must say, if you don't have the experience , and your a hobbyist. you really can't expect to be paid every time.
because you haven't worked at it...

just because you decide you'd quite like to dance , sing and do these acts
doesn't mean thats the problem of promoter a, b and c.
you do it at your own expense, and if you gain a good reputation and get yourself around, and make a name... yeah. maybe then people will pay you.

the people who advertise on here, probably can't pay people. which is why they put out the adverts looking for people.
if a show is successful enough to pay well, they're more likely to ask people themselves.... because they have a good idea on what they're doing.
i'm not suggesting ALL the casting calls, are people who don't know what they're doing.
but its a lot of people who are starting out nights, clubs that want burlesque but arn't sure how it works, and college/uni projects.
it's up to you if you want to do it,
and if you do - you knew what you were getting... so don't complain

I dont think anybody should be asked do a show out of their own expense! At least give people their travel money. If they're charging on the door then there's no way you should expect anything less than a few quid for the bus...of course, unless it's for charity.

I do agree that new performers just cutting their teeth shouldn't be expecting megabucks and for them doing it for 'experience' still has value. That's how I, and I imagine most people here, started out.

However, I know promotors who would pay people out of their own pocket if ends didn't quite meet because they are serious about booking decent performers and putting on a decent show. If a promotor doesn't have the budget or commitment to do that maybe they are not at the right place in their lives to be putting on an event.

There is a lot of talk about new performers coming into the scene willy nilly and not knowing what they are doing - this comes up all the time but nobody ever seems to talk about all the promotors who come in new and don't know what they are doing and it seems to me that this is a bigger issue. The more promotors who publicly say they want to book a show and pay nobody, the more other new promotors who think this is the done thing.

I can't count (especially in the last 12 months) how many people have contacted me (by no means a big hitter, but still with 4 years hard work under my belt) and it has been
Girl 1: New promotor and will also be performing for the first time
Girls 2,3 and 4: New promotors friends who have never performed before
and then they want me and maybe one other mid level performer.

Now really, what they are saying is they want either me or other girl to essentially headline their show as we are the only ones with any experience or reputation (small though that may be in the grand scheme of things). Now, to me, the headliner should always get paid. Not just expenses. Paid. But these promotors feel they are doing you a favour by offering to book you for 'experience' when you have more so called experience then the rest of the bill put together (barring the other poor schmuck they are offering the same crummy deal to).

I would rather be bottom of a great bill and actually learn something and gain some real experience than be top of a bill where everyone else is brand new, but if I'm going to be top of a bill of newbies I expect to be paid. No ifs, ands or buts. Friends are different. Maybe. But for a stranger, if I'm the best person you are wanting to book, pay me or else don't book me and put on a newbie showcase instead and price your tickets accordingly.

Rant over.
Sorry chaps and chapettes but this is a big bugbear of mine.

There's a lot of useful information about pay rates in this thread:

http://www.ministryofburlesque.com/b...rates-pay.html

When I see adverts with promoters offering no money bit will supply drinks. That really makes me laugh. Do you really want a pissed girl on stage. I only ever did 4 free gigs when I strayed out. I chose very carefull and picked ones I would learn the most from like MOB.
I would never have done a free gig for a new promoter. I would have learned nothing and gained nothing fromthe experience . Also what would they have learned. As a soon new promoter with Sketchy I ambooking experienced girls that will make my job easier. I hope with my years of experience I will make there experience fun. Fingers crossed. Diva x

Back again!

Another thing that cheeses me off with this situation is that whenever a new performer complains that they are not making enough we (rightly) always tell them that burlesque is an expensive hobby/business. As a community we tell newcomers to expect to spend money (costumes, props, promo pics etc) before they make money. Hell, a lot of performers never break even because everything they make goes back into making the next act even bigger and better. And if people don't like it it's tough. Cheap, shoddy costumes, props and whatever will never be anything but a hinderance to a performers success (although the extremely talented few might be able to do a lot more with a lot less) and if they can't accept that, they will in for a disappointment.

Why is this not the same for promotors?

Why are we not saying to new promotors 'Burlesque is expensive - deal with it' like we are to new performers? I know a lot of performers who would love to set up a night but (amongst other things) the costs have been prohibitive. I know I would love to give it a go, but I just don't have the cash to make that investment. And I believe it is an investment - not something that should be undertaken lightly. If a promotor is not willing to put in some of their own money (at least at the start) to pay his/her performers (even if it is only a token amount) that, in my book, is the same as a new performer refusing to use his/her own money to buy their first costume.

I know that running a show is an expensive thing to do but I do feel like, if you can't afford to do it properly then save up and wait until you can. That's the advice we as a community give new performers and I think the same rules apply.

Sorry for the double rant.

Originally Posted by Emerald_Ace

I know that running a show is an expensive thing to do but I do feel like, if you can't afford to do it properly then save up and wait until you can. That's the advice we as a community give new performers and I think the same rules apply.

I came up with a cake analogy:

"Would you go and bake a cake even if you didn’t have all of the ingredients, just for the experience of baking it? No, because it will turn out crap."

…the cake is the show, btw