Thread: Burlesque artists getting paid now and again

I think what everyone is saying makes sense. It comes down to people all being a bit more realistic about their expectations.

If you are a very new performer working for experience is necessary and useful, but obviously, some experience has more value than others. If you are a new promotor - what's the point of making a cake with no sugar? (thanks Vendetta!) You'll only be complaining when what comes out tastes bad!

It's not fair and it's not fun but burlesque costs money. To paraphrase Terry Pratchett talking about the theatre:
'You put money in, you get burlesque out'.
And if you can't afford to do what you want, to the standard you are haoppy with straight away (lord knows I can't on my salary!) you just have to wait and save, and if you aren't committed enough to do that maybe you just don't want it enough. This applies to performers and promotors.

PS. I think door share is perfectly acceptable as long as the promotor can give you some kind of realistic estimate of what they hope to make on the night, then if you chose to take the risk it is on an informed decision.

PPS. Khandie - promotors like you are the lifeblood of this scene (and performers like you for that matter!).

how do you lot deal with it if you don't get paid what you're promised? It's been a bit of a shaky area for me setting up freelance and I wondered if anyone could offer any solutions xx

Originally Posted by Joanie Rose

how do you lot deal with it if you don't get paid what you're promised? It's been a bit of a shaky area for me setting up freelance and I wondered if anyone could offer any solutions xx

You HAVE to make sure you have a signed contract stating all the agreed terms & conditions. Also I suggest you join Equity as they help you with legal issues if it comes to that.

Missy x

I'm sorry that this post won't really contribute to this in any way, I just wanted to say that it has all been a very useful read! A lot more makes sense to me now.

x

This is a really interesting thread - I am a newbie performer (my first gig is in March - unpaid), but as a day job I am an events organiser and publicist.

I do think that for newbies doing things free to get their foot in the door, and even to get experience of performing to an audience, can be good experience . I used to act when I was younger, but haven't performed to an audience for over ten years, and I wasn't getting naked back then either, so I am more than happy to do my share of free gigs for the experience . Though definitely travel expenses should be covered. I would hope that if I am considered any good I would start to be able to get some reasonable pay, but doubt it would ever cover the costs I have already laid out on costumes. And I think people are right to suggest that newbies need to have a better understanding of this. I know someone who told me she wanted to get into burlesque for the money and I laughed very hard before giving her a reality check. I haven't even done my first gig yet and I have already laid out loads of cash on classes , workshops, costumes, you name it!

I also agree that there needs to be an education of newbie event organisers, and it's right to imagine that this (along with the recession?) has had an effect on when/if performers are paid).

In my day job things are a little different, in regards to the sort of events I organise. I deal on a daily basis with artists, authors, musicians and various other types of performer and very much on an individual basis. For example I wouldn't pay the same to a local poet trying to increase their profile, as I would to a world class musician. I have also worked with lots of people who I have asked to work for free/experience. But only in cases where this is fact. For example we often have small events at which it is nice to have some background music, and so I may book a local musician/s to play a couple of sets - for which they will have travel expenses paid, food/drink, and the opportunity to network and hand out publicity materials. In fact many such performers I have worked with have been subsequently booked by people who knew them from our events.

In the main I have two ways of working out pay. If we have funding for an event, either through a sponsor, grant or internally, then I might negotiate a fee for the author/artist/musician/etc, but if not then it is completely down to ticket sales. As such we would split the ticket sales accordingly and I would usually pay travel expenses on top of that. So although we make money from our events, often the performer makes more than us, and is certainly never out of pocket.

Splitting ticket sales is a great option, but can have it's drawbacks which newbie organisers might not consider, and thus be left unable to pay what they had promised. Firstly, splitting sales is fine if you are paying one person - when there are more involved then that means less of a cut for everyone, or raising ticket prices to compensate. And then of course you are risking raising prices too high for people to pay. Which essentially translates as the bigger the bill, the more audience/ticket capacity you need (as well as the ability to get bums in all those seats). A bigger venue means more publicity to fill seats, as you can't rely on your mates to make up the entire audience, and some organisers I have seen fail at even using free online advertising . And even printing posters/leaflets costs money, so this becomes another drain on the finances. And as others have pointed out, you can then have a big half empty venue, rubbish publicity, minimal acts that will work either free or cheap (either few performers, or alternatively a reverse newbie slot, where instead of having headliners and then a newbie slot or two, it's all newbies and the occasional headliner), and in the end a rubbish night for everyone involved.
These are things that many newbie event organisers (not just in the burly world) fail to consider and end up making a huge loss or not being able to pay participants, etc.

It makes me sad

Originally Posted by Missy

You HAVE to make sure you have a signed contract stating all the agreed terms & conditions. Also I suggest you join Equity as they help you with legal issues if it comes to that.

Missy x

I do have contracts for my freelance work (I learned the hard way!), it might be worth me joining the association of illustrators for what I do. They have a similar thing in terms of legal help.

How in depth are contracts for performers? Mine are pretty extensive but pretty easy to understand - I had a lot of help there with how to write them though xx

This is a really good thread! I can't really understand the naivety of a new performer going into burlesque thinking they are going to be making megabucks, even if they turn out to be very good and have a fair few performances under their belt. Personally I am not viewing my burgeoning burlesque 'career' (and I use the term loosely) as anything more than a hobby, which doesn’t mean I won’t take it any less seriously than a professional , just I won’t rely on the industry for my bread and butter.

I am yet to perform, but have spent a small fortune on costumes and props, I mean if your going to have a dog have a dog! (I am a bit of an all or nothing kinda gal hehe) and I am not really expecting to make the money spent back for quite some time.

One thing is though, do you think it unreasonable to request travel costs when you are new?

i agree with all aspects of KVG's post, being in a similar position...i consider myburlesqueto be a hobby and at the minute cannot foresee any form of professional income from it...it is my choice as a hobby therefore it is my responsibility to fund it...professionals however i think definately deserve adequate recompense for their performances. my other hobby is ww2 reenacting and there is a lot of fuss in that world about whether we as reenactors ought to receive recompense for attending events...again...my choice as a hobby...my responsibility to fund it...simples...xxx

Originally Posted by Kitty Van Ghoul

One thing is though, do you think it unreasonable to request travel costs when you are new?

Personally , yes i do.

When I started out i would drive a 200 mile return journey for a show with no payment whatsoever.

This went on for a fair few shows, I had one act and no experience and Im glad i did it. I got to gain some great experience and confidence and meet some great performers and promoters.

The way i looked at it is that the promoter was taking a chance on me and giving me a slot to perform in without ever having seen me.

Once you build up a positive reputation and have work to back it up, THEN you can start asking for recompense.

Originally Posted by Miss May Hemm

Personally , yes i do.

When I started out i would drive a 200 mile return journey for a show with no payment whatsoever.

This went on for a fair few shows, I had one act and no experience and Im glad i did it. I got to gain some great experience and confidence and meet some great performers and promoters.

The way i looked at it is that the promoter was taking a chance on me and giving me a slot to perform in without ever having seen me.

Once you build up a positive reputation and have work to back it up, THEN you can start asking for recompense.

Just want to say I love you May Hemm . You have one of the best attitdues towards what you do that I've ever seen!

xx