Thread: Burlesque artists getting paid now and again

Originally Posted by Vendetta Vain

I came up with a cake analogy:

"Would you go and bake a cake even if you didn’t have all of the ingredients, just for the experience of baking it? No, because it will turn out crap."

…the cake is the show, btw

Mmmmmm..... Cake!

I don't know if I'm barking up a particularly wrong and sullied tree here, but would performers ever consider a percentage of profit from the door?

Strikes me that if you are a promotor just starting out, and you need performers, instead of saying "I'll get you a couple of drinks", you said "You'll get 20% of any profit on the door" (ie after venue paid for, etc.), you might get a bit more good will from the performers as at least you're offering something.

I know this would work more for a local gig with local performers, or if you said "Travel is paid for from fixed costs, and anything we make above the costs gets split.", but I think it'd be a fairer way to go if you are just starting a night....

using another cake related thing...

you can't expect to sell your cakes, before they're any good

you need to bake at your own ingredient expense, and get it right before you can expect people to pay for it...

burlesque is NOT a get rich quick scheme. it's work and investment,
and people should be aware of that.

I totally agree with you Joe without a doubt! But you know - If you're putting in the work right from the start surely we can expect the promoters to do the same.

BTW i think a % of the door would be a nice thing totally!

Helping at the club in Reading was extremely frustrating because I was basically a face for them to get performers. I had no say over budget or what happened backstage . I wanted to put flowers and nibbles in the dressing room but there was nothing in the budget. I couldn't pay out of my own pocket as I was on the dole. I was promised free drinks and entry but didn't even get that. However it was a great learning experience . If I was to set up a night now I would expect to lose money for the first few events at least. Whats the saying? Speculate to accumulate? Basically, if you want to earn from promoting or performing you have to be prepared to stump up the cash to get things rolling

[QUOTE=Emerald_Ace;111764]
There is a lot of talk about new performers coming into the scene willy nilly and not knowing what they are doing - this comes up all the time but nobody ever seems to talk about all the promotors who come in new and don't know what they are doing and it seems to me that this is a bigger issue. The more promotors who publicly say they want to book a show and pay nobody, the more other new promotors who think this is the done thing.
[QUOTE]

Nail on head.

Originally Posted by Iolair

Mmmmmm..... Cake!

I don't know if I'm barking up a particularly wrong and sullied tree here, but would performers ever consider a percentage of profit from the door?

Strikes me that if you are a promotor just starting out, and you need performers, instead of saying "I'll get you a couple of drinks", you said "You'll get 20% of any profit on the door" (ie after venue paid for, etc.), you might get a bit more good will from the performers as at least you're offering something.

I know this would work more for a local gig with local performers, or if you said "Travel is paid for from fixed costs, and anything we make above the costs gets split.", but I think it'd be a fairer way to go if you are just starting a night....

I did a load of these types of shows when I started out. Sometimes they were good, I once made over £100 at a profit share gig, other times the promoter has come up sheepishly and said they didn't even make enough to cover my expenses. Once I did a profit share show, was quite looking forward to the end since the venue was totally packed, then found out that the venue manager had given away almost all of the tickets to make it look full for the press reviewers he had invited! Needless to say I declined to come back!

If its done well I think it's a nice, honest approach, and it does encourage the performers to help promote the show since it's in their interest to have a good turnout.

Me and Creme showed up to a gig once and were told that not enough people had come through the door to pay our full fee so would we settle for half... Uh, no. Promoting is financially daunting and often unrewarding. But that's the risk promoters take. Performers have their own risks they have to deal with.

If a night is starting out and if it's one I really wanted to do (because of theme, location, convenience, etc) I would sometimes settle for expenses plus a door cut. Then you're certain you won't lose out personally and if the night is busy then that's a bonus.

As a professional costume maker I'm bursting with ideas for burlesque acts, and not knowing anyone to wear them, and having worked as a life model, thought 'I know, I'll have a go myself'.
I read as much as I could, spent a lot of time on YouTube and in the MoB Community, went to some shows, and was quite encouraged - because while I saw some truly wonderful acts, I also saw some deeply amateur ones.
Finally I invested about £500 in lessons. At which point I learned two very interesting things:
Firstly, IT IS MUCH HARDER THAN IT LOOKS
Secondly, and rather surprisingly to me, I found I was far too self-conscious ever to be really good at it.

Which made me realise how arrogant I had been.

I trained at Art School for three years, but when I left I had no illusions that someone would suddenly start offering me work making frocks for principal dancers at the Royal Ballet - I was very grateful to go and assist other professional makers who were higher up the ladder, sewing on hooks and bars. Hugely boring, and not very well-paid (while I was still studying I often worked just for lunch and tube fares), but I learned far more from these people than I ever did at college. And they took a risk on me - because at the end of the day I was working on frocks that went out with their name ( and reputation) on.

Now I get really sniffy about people who compare my work to some housewife down the road who 'also does a bit of dress-making'. What they turn out might be perfectly acceptable to them and to their clients, but I know that my work is much more detailed and beautiful and better-fitting. Which is why I cost more than they do. And why I had to work very hard to get where I am now.

I was very happy to have dipped my toe in the burlesque pool, and some day I'ld love to have a go at performing at an amateur night - but I couldn't in all conscience expect people to pay for the privilege of watching me fulfill my fantasy.

The people I really admire in this whole burly-world are the people in the middle - not the headline acts, many of whom had dance or performance training from a tot, nor the women like me who just 'fancy having a go'. I mean the part-time performers who have day-jobs, but spend every spare bit of time, energy and money to make damn sure that they put on a really good show, who act with professionalism onstage and off, and are lucky if they make £100 - which goes straight back into frocks, props and everything else so that they can inch their way a little bit higher up the ladder.

I think the question everyone should ask themselves, whatever their field, is 'Am I worth the money?' And a lot of those semi-pros are - not as much as the headline acts, sure, but at least something. And certainly more than someone whose only experience is infront of their boyfriend.

I blame Simon Cowell!

Vx

P.S. I can't tell you the number of phonecalls I had in the early days from newbie designers saying 'It's not much money but it will be really good experience , and you'll make lots of contacts.

It never was.
I never did.

It was almost always a nightmare; I was hardly ever able to produce good work under those conditions, and so my budding reputation suffered. It only ever worked with people I really knew well - and really trusted. That way when it all goes tits up you can have a drink and a laugh and look to doing things better the next time - a little wiser.

Vx

I dont understand why people say 'no fee but good experience ' when you dont learn anything. I have in the past posted jobs for performers for shows such as a festival where they had never had burlesque before and I was asked to put on a show. I had no budget so EVERYTHING came out of my own day job money. I bought tents,food,presents beer. eventually I was given money for travel for my girls though not for myself (i wanted my girls to get a better rate) I blagged more tickets and the girls were covered by magazine and I have already had requests for next years show with a budget!

If you want me to perform free SURELY if I am not getting something monetary I should be getting something???

I have seen girls who have done a few lessons with a performer (sometimes of next to no experience themselves) send me CVs requesting paid work for shows advertised at rates I would never pay nor request myself with that level of experience .

I once had a performer send me a rider so long I worked it out as costing me more than her actual fees. needless to say I didnt book her.

But sadly for every gig we turn down for lack of money etc there is always someone willing to do it.