Thread: Burlesque & Feminism - How does performance affect you?

Hi there. Hope I'm not too late - have emailed my answers!

How are you defining 'traditional' and 'neo' burlesque ?

People tend to use these terms rather differently from one another according to their familiarity with the burlesque genre and country of origin.

There is therefore a high probability that the answers you are receiving are not based on consistent source questions - as they will have been interpreted differently.

For example - 'traditional burlesque ' :

As a Brit, the 'traditional burlesque ' to me is not the striptease kind at all - it's a much earlier form (19th Century) that sends up gender politics, arts and society.

If however, I was American then yes, 'traditional' for me would be the striptease kind from early 20th century - since this is where the US's own tradition lies.

If I was French, then I'd be thinking more along the lines of early showgirls where dance was the focus...

and so on..

Ditto same issue for 'neo'

Originally Posted by LaBelleDame

Questions for everyone:
[*]How successful do you feel traditional burlesque was/could be in portraying political messages, if any?

I personally think that burlesque shouldn't be corresponded with political messages.
To me, burlesque is an art that should be kept outside the world and everything that goes on in it. It should be a haven for people to come and forget the horrors of society. It should strictly be about the art of sex and dance and entertainment.
Burlesque is a timeless feature, it'll still be going on 50 years from now, much the same way it has been, carrying along the same fundamentals that it started with.
In the wars, women would be sent out to the troops to burlesque and perform, to take the soldiers away from the war for a night. To give them an indulgence.
I think to relate burlesque performances with what's going on in politics and society, would taint it and take away from its classic beauty.
If I went to a burlesque show and the girls were feeding me messages concerned with politics and society, I'd leave.

For audience members of burlesque :[LIST][*]Are you male or female?
Female[*]Do you feel your sex affects your experience with burlesque ? If so, How do you feel it affects it?
I don't really feel that it affects my experience , aside from little things, like my fellow audience being mostly male.[*]How regularly do you watch burlesque performances and shows?
Every three or four months.[*]How did it make you feel when you first saw a live burlesque act? Has this changed consequently?
I had been obsessed with burlesque and pinup and those kinds of things for a very long time, when I met my now partner he admitted to a similar fascination (fetish lol) and asked me to see a show with him. I didn't even know we had those kind of shows around here, but I was quick to agree and the whole general experience absolutely thrilled me.
When I have an ugly day, I remember those girls and how beautiful and funny they were, and I immediately feel better.
I left the place, having absorbed those girls' confidence and sexuality, I have been much more sure of myself since that first show.
And since, it is still such a treat for my partner and I to share that experience together, it hasn't lessened in any way. Its still very exciting and confidence boosting.

Also, I know this wasn't on your list, but when the words feminism come up in front of me, I automatically tense waiting for the usual "you're a shame to women" crap.
I know a lot of people feel that burlesque and similar acts are demeaning to women. And it is the most annoying, frustrating thing to be told. (And is it no coincidence that the women who say this and generally old, unattractive and prudes??)
What I find a shame to women, is being told that you can't do something that you enjoy because they don't enjoy it.
I know that women have come a long way in what, 60? 70? years. I know that it is amazing that a woman can work along side a man, and do just as good, if not better a job than him. I understand that some women don't want to embrace their sexuality, and that other women want to chase their careers the same way men often do.
If a woman doesn't want to be seen as a sex object by men, she doesn't have to. There's plenty of men who adore women with careers, and their own things, and their trouser suits and flat shoes.
But if a woman does want to be seen that way, and enjoys showing off her body rather than her CV, and embraces femininity and the ability to please men in the way that a man wants to be pleased, then bloody well let her.
To not be anti-feminist and bigotry, you need to let every female do what she wants to do, and not rage against it because you disagree with it.

Sorry, that was just a rant there, haha.

Originally Posted by SaraVonKelly

I understand that some women don't want to embrace their sexuality, and that other women want to chase their careers the same way men often do.

If a woman doesn't want to be seen as a sex object by men, she doesn't have to. There's plenty of men who adore women with careers, and their own things, and their trouser suits and flat shoes.

But if a woman does want to be seen that way, and enjoys showing off her body rather than her CV, and embraces femininity and the ability to please men in the way that a man wants to be pleased, then bloody well let her.

I don't think this is the motive/intent of every performer though. Or their aim! In fact, I know performers who would be horrified if people thought that was what they wanted to do...

To many, the very point is that they are not objectified; they do not consider a burlesque performance to be a sexual encounter, or an act of servitude/submission to the audience member for the purposes of sexual gratification. (In the way some might consider the transaction between a lapdancer in a club, and the punter/male client, for example.) Only very recently we have been challenging this point of view, when threatened by legislation that would classify burlesque as such!

Nor do they feel it is for the purpose of 'pleasing a man'. (Especially at a time when men are easily outnumbered by women in burlesque audiences - it would hardly be the best environment for someone who had that purpose in mind...)

And I don't believe that 'embracing your sexuality' and pursuing a career have to be mutually exclusive. Or 'sexuality' and intelligence/achievement.

I just wanted to point this out to LaBelleDame, for the purposes of her research x

Originally Posted by SaraVonKelly

I know a lot of people feel that burlesque and similar acts are demeaning to women. And it is the most annoying, frustrating thing to be told. (And is it no coincidence that the women who say this and generally old, unattractive and prudes??)

There is no evidence to support the stereotype that they are generally 'old, unattractive and prudes'. A broad spectrum of women do, and are entitled to feel this way. I can understand why they do, even if I do not agree in this case. And even if they were 'old, unattractive etc.', I don't see how that has any bearing on their views and feelings, and how much we should respect them. I am sure you would hope to have your views respected and valued regardless of your appearance or age...?

I was simply saying all of this from personal point of view, my experiences and opinions. I wasn't being diplomatic about it, because I thought the questions were seeking plain, personal answers, not statistics.

I don't think this is the motive/intent of every performer though.

I know this, its just my intent.

And I don't believe that 'embracing your sexuality' and pursuing a career have to be mutually exclusive. Or 'sexuality' and intelligence/achievement.

I just want to point out that I don't think this either.
That's why I said "I understand that some women don't want to embrace their sexuality, and that other women want to chase their careers the same way men often do"
I was simply pointing out a range of reasons why a woman might not agree with burlesque , and also saying that they are fair reasons and I understand them. I was not meaning that one exclusively undoes the other.

There is no evidence to support the stereotype that they are generally 'old, unattractive and prudes'

Again, I wasn't being diplomatic, I was speaking from my own experience .
Generally, the people that made that aforementioned point to me have been old, unattractive prudes. Its not a stereotype, its how it has been in my experience .

And even if they were 'old, unattractive etc.', I don't see how that has any bearing on their views and feelings, and how much we should respect them.

Well, that was my point. I felt, while speaking to these women, that they're point was driven by jealousy rather than a sincere feminist-defense ideal. -but that was an afterthought, not a point I wanted to dwell on, hence the brackets.
And no, I have a healthy level of respect for all people, regardless of age or physical appearance.

Hi I was just thinking that the question "Do you feel your sex affects your experience with burlesque ? If so, How do you feel it affects it?" should potentially look at gender and sexuality as opposed to your biological sex. Sounds like an interesting dissertation subject, good luck.

For audience members of burlesque :
Are you male or female?

Female.

Do you feel your sex affects your experience with burlesque ? If so, How do you feel it affects it?

I feel it does a little as an audience member. I'm going to a show this april with my sister and some boyfriends of mine - I know this isn't true of everyone, but my sister and I are more interested in the comedy/entertainment/story element of the acts where the men that we're going with are just more interested in seeing glamourous girls strip off and having a good night out. Not that I'm not interested in that, but I think that in itself isn't enough for me!

How regularly do you watch burlesque performances and shows?

Not as often as I'd like, I didn't go to any shows last year. I watch a lot online when I can get hold of showreels and stuff, but I find it difficult with the boyfriend at work most evenings.

How did it make you feel when you first saw a live burlesque act? Has this changed consequently?

I'm not sure it was quite what I expected, it was a Candy Box a few years ago with an ex boyfriend... their Valentines show I think. I knew a bit about burlesque , but I'd seen more of a traditional American portrayal of it so the acts that I saw really just wowed me. I loved the excuse to dress up, too. There aren't many opportunities for me to really feel glam, it was a really great evening.

What, do you feel, are the differences in burlesque acts and strip shows in a traditional strip club?

Craftsmanship, showmanship, storytelling. Strip clubs are a very one-minded form of entertainment where burlesque has so much more depth. Yes, there are sexy women taking their clothes off, but that's not the only point.

Have you been affected by the Camden council rulings? Has this changed your attitude toward burlesque ?

Not that I know!

Have you ever seen a burlesque act with a very obvious political message? Please describe.

Most of the stuff I've seen has been pretty light-hearted, I've never seen a particularly political act in person.

How did this make you feel?

See above!

xx